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Barbara Nitke
barbara@barbaranitke.com
www.barbaranitke.com
Check out some of Barbara's incredible Photography
Read Susan Wright's review of Barbara Nitke's New Book Kiss
of Fire
Read Sensuous Sadie's review of Barbara Nitke's New Book Kiss
of Fire
Barbara Nitke is a well-known fetish photographer living in the New
York City area. Her photographs are posted on her website as well as in
the collection of The Finnish Museum of Photography, the Leather
Archives and Museum in Chicago, and in numerous private collections in
the US and abroad. She has been a featured artist at many S/M
conventions across the country. She is a member of The Eulenspiegel
Society (the oldest S/M support and educational group in the country)
and also of the Lesbian Sex Mafia, a women-only group based in New York.
She has also received a President's Choice Award for community service
by Pantheon of Leather. Barbara is on the faculty of the School of
Visual Arts in New York, and is the president of the Camera Club of New
York, which was founded by Alfred Steiglitz in 1884.
Sensuous Sadie: You are probably most well known for your beautiful
fetish photography which came out of your work with the porn industry.
You wrote that, "The fetish scenes spoke to me in an entirely
different way from the slam-bam hardcore scenes. They struck a deeper
chord, in a darker way." Did photographing the fetish world get you
involved, or was there already a seed of BDSM in you?
Barbara Nitke: "The work you’re referring to is probably the ‘Kiss
of Fire’ series. It’s the work I’ve been doing since 1994 in the
SM community and it followed my work in the porn industry.
"Back in the eighties, when I was working in hardcore porn, I knew
that SM would be my next subject. I have no idea why, it’s just
something I knew and it scared me at the time.
"I can remember a few triggers – a friend’s boyfriend telling
me about a book of SM illustrations from Germany which sounded amazing,
or meeting Marco Vassi on a hardcore porn shoot about swingers which
took place at an SM club in New York. Marco told me a lot about how SM
works, the limits and negotiating and all that.
"When I went to work on fetish porn shoots in the early nineties
(my ‘Resurrection’ body of work), it was really a continuation of
the hardcore porn. A lot of actors and actresses went into fetish porn
then because there’s no sex in those movies. It was their way of
protecting themselves against AIDS.
"At that time I thought I was fulfilling my prediction that I would
photograph sadomasochism, but fetish porn movies rarely have much to do
with real live SM, and the photographs I took there were a behind the
scenes look at a surreal industry.
"When I came into the scene in the mid nineties and met people who
actually did SM they were so different from any of the porn stars I
knew! I was really enchanted."
Sadie: You are drawn to lovers in the fetish scene. What do you see
in them that you don't see in couples who are just playing for the
evening?
Barbara: "Sometimes I’m drawn to the people who are just playing
for the evening too. It’s hard to say exactly, but there’s just a
certain very loving and deep energy that I really like between couples.
That’s what I look for.
Sadie: Your photography has been compared to that of the
controversial photographer Robert Mapplethorpe for his treatment of
sometimes disturbing subject matter. Do you feel that your photography
is similar in this way? What do you think of Mapplethorpe's work?
Barbara: "Robert Mapplethorpe was a great photographer and I’m
thrilled to be compared to him. But, I would hesitate to call what I
shoot ‘disturbing subject matter!’ I understand that some people may
be disturbed, but my subject is inherently beautiful and normal as far
as I’m concerned.
"My favorite work by Mapplethorpe is the early work where he was
really shooting the gay leather scene of the seventies. It’s wonderful
work, and a lot of it isn’t the stuff normally seen in books and
museums.
"The difference between his work and mine is that his is very
carefully staged according to his own personal vision. It’s not about
the models he uses, it’s about him as an artist.
"With mine, people do a scene for me to photograph and I want to
capture some truth about them which they reveal to me. The work is
really all about them, and they are allowing me to be present with them
in their scene.
Sadie: Who are your favorite fetish photographers? What about their
photography moves you?
Barbara: "It’s very hard to say favorites. I know so many
fantastic photographers, all of whom are my friends, so I don’t want
to single anybody out!
Sadie: In writing about your work with the porn industry, you write
that, "I'd look through the lens into someone's shell-shocked eyes
and see a forgotten part of me staring back." What was it that you
saw?
Barbara: "There were a lot of people in the porn industry at that
time (the eighties) who I would call lost souls, or square pegs who
couldn’t fit into the mainstream. I related to them. I saw a certain
sadness in them, which mirrored something of mine. I don’t know where
that came from.
"But that was then. In the early nineties I began to meet the next
generation of young porn stars, and they would show up on the set with a
business plan in their hand. That was a big change from previous
decades, and I thought it was fabulous. People were beginning to see
porn as a legitimate career, or a means to an end at least.
"I hope attitudes towards porn and sex work in general will change
as the years go by. It’s a legitimate service industry, and if nothing
else the people who work in porn should be respected for their hard
work.
Sadie: Some artists go into a mental state of "flow" when
they're working, a state that is not unlike Domspace and Subspace. Is
your experience of photography like this?
Barbara: "Absolutely! At the end of a shoot I’m usually as high
as everybody else. The ultimate scene for me is photographing a couple
that I really like and feeling their energy flow through me."
Sadie: You recently held a photography exhibit called "20
Years" which ran at the Art at Large Studio in Manhattan in the
summer of 2002. Considering that these are the same photographs that the
internet prohibits, is it the fact that it was in New York City that
made them more acceptable to show?
Barbara: "That’s an interesting question because we previously
had a mayor, Guiliani, who wanted to ban sexual expression in New York.
It’s still too soon to say what’s going to happen with the current
mayor. So while most New Yorkers would not find my work obscene at all,
we still had high level politicians wanting to shut down free
expression.
"In the last decade or so, there has been a conservative shift in
the art world across the country, even in the big cities. That’s why
it’s really important to support galleries like Art@Large (www.artatlarge.com
). Their mission is to give voice to neo-erotic artists and they’re
doing it in the face of a very conservative swing of the cultural
pendulum.
Sadie: The other thing that you are getting well known for is your
current suit against Attorney General John Ashcroft and the U.S.
government, challenging the CDA's use of "local community
standards" to define what can be considered obscene on the
Internet. Why did you choose to take such a public stand?
Barbara: "I filed a lawsuit opposing the Communications Decency Act
on December 11, 2001 along with the National Coalition for Sexual
Freedom. For me it’s a way of fighting for my right to do my work.
"The CDA applies the community standards test of obscenity to the
internet. For example, my website, which would be considered inoffensive
to most people in New York City, might be offensive to people in certain
bible belt communities. This law makes it possible for a federal
obscenity charge to be brought against me in one of those areas of the
country, since in their community my work might be considered obscene.
"Obscenity is a felony, which by the way, is punishable by jail
time.
"Here’s an example of how this bad law might affect the SM
community: A leather organization in San Francisco has an educational
website for it’s members and other interested people. Right wing
groups are complaining about the site and want to have it taken down.
Rather than try to bring an obscenity case against the site in liberal
San Francisco, the government brings the case in rural Mississippi under
the CDA.
"The SM organization will most likely not be able to afford to
fight the case, especially out of state, and will be forced to plead
guilty and take down the site. This same scenario would also happen to
me, or any other artist working with sexual material.
"In effect this makes the most repressive community the standard
for the entire internet. That’s unfair to the adults who would like to
be able to see work like mine, or visit educational SM websites, or see
other sexually frank material on the internet.
"By bringing this lawsuit against the CDA, we’re able to fight
the law before people are adversely affected by it. I think that’s
very important for all of us.
Sadie: Statements by the government say that, ‘Plaintiffs contend
that when an artist such as Nitke publishes her potentially obscene,
sado-masochistic images on her Web site, the images will necessarily be
distributed in more than one community, thereby potentially exposing her
to prosecution in more than one jurisdiction and that, as a result, her
work will be judged by the ‘community standards’ of more than one
community. What's your feeling about which of your particular photos
that really freaked people out? After all when I looked at them, they
seemed more art than porn. There certainly wasn't anything in them that
was unsafe.
Barbara: "The people who are opposed to sexual expression don’t
care whether it’s safe or not. They don’t care whether it’s art or
not. They don’t want the expression out there. Period. In my opinion
they use a lot of unsavory tactics to achieve their goals.
"They invariably tie mainstream porn to kiddie porn and the abuse
of women for example. Irregardless of the facts.
"When people like Concerned Women of America target a scene event,
the always find the most flamboyant sounding details of the event and
plaster them all over the news. They don’t want to know if the event
is educational and concerned with safety. They just want to get rid of
the event and force people to stay underground.
"This is the unfair attitude that drives me nuts!
Sadie: If you fail to win this suit, what will your next steps be?
Barbara: "We’re committed to taking it up to the Supreme Court.
All of us – our lawyer John Wirenius, NCSF and I – believe that this
is an important issue and worth the fight. If we lose in Supreme Court,
then everybody better look out!
"All websites with sexual content will be at risk."
Sadie: You are a member of the Lesbian Sex Mafia of New York City.
What drew you to this group?
Barbara: "Well, when I heard the name, I knew I had to join!
Sadie: You are on the faculty of the School of Visual Arts in New
York. Have you had any issues come up in your work around your fetish
photography? Do you find that your students are particularly interested
in it because of the sexual aspect?
Barbara: "The first year I taught (1992), I was afraid to mention
my work. Then I decided that was dishonest. Every year since I’ve made
sure to show my students some of my work and invite them to be on my
mailing list.
"Also, School of Visual Arts has a class called Sex and
Photography, taught by a friend of mine. She often invites me to come
and show slides of my work for her class and talk about the work.
Sadie: One of the reasons I very much enjoy photography (both of
myself, and taking pictures) is that it a very validating form of art.
When you see yourself made glamorous or beautiful or sexy, you can't
help but believe it. What keeps you excited about your own work?
Barbara: "I think the work is important, both as an artistic
statement and also as anthropology. I believe in it and that’s what
keeps me going."
Sadie: Is there anything else you'd like to share with our readers?
Barbara: "Yes. I hope that people will help the CDA lawsuit by
sending a check or money order to pay our lawyer John Wirenius and our
law firm, Leeds, Morelli & Brown. Put: CDA Legal Fees in the memo
line and make it out to NCSF, 5505 Connecticut Avenue NW, #184,
Washington DC 20015-2601.
Sadie: Thank you for chatting with me!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sensuous
Sadie is the author of It's Not
About the Whip: Love, Sex, and Spirituality in the BDSM Scene (http://www.trafford.com/robots/03-0551.html).
She is the founder and leader (1999 - 2001) of
Rose
&
Thorn
,
Vermont
's first BDSM group.
Comments, compliments and complaints, as well as requests for reprinting
can be addressed to her at SensuousSadie@aol.com
or visit her website at www.sensuoussadie.com. Sadie believes the universe is abundant, and that sharing information
freely is part of this abundance, so she allows reprints of her writing
in most venues.
Copyright
2003 Sadie Sez Publications
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